The confusion of Mormons

We continue our comments on the manuscript sent to us by a misled Mormon called Stephen.(*)

And in this article, we will summarize from what we have seen till now the points that show the total confusion of this Mormon due to the deceptions of his leaders.

Last time we saw how Stephen is misled concerning the Athanasian Creed. You can read about that in the article Did Athanasius tell the Church who her God is? Now, Stephen quotes some parts from that Creed to make his readers think he made a scholarly research, and then adds his ignorant comments that show his confusion concerning the whole matter. Let’s read what he wrote:

So, this is the origin of our modern definition of the Godhead.

How ignorant… We have seen that no human can define who God is, and we have seen how God had already revealed to us in His Word who He is. You can read it in the article Was the Church ignorant about the Nature of God?

So this is one of the main confusions of Stephen: he thinks the Athanasian Creed is the origin, and not the Word of God. The Athanasian Creed came a long time after the prophets and the Apostles told us who God is.

Besides, the biblical definition of the Godhead is not a modern definition, as Stephen dreams. This is how God revealed Himself from the beginning, even from the first verse of the Bible, as we have seen in the previous articles. As for the modern definition of the Mormons, well that has nothing to do neither with the Athanasian Creed nor with the biblical definition.

Stephen continues:

If you think it would be any less incomprehensible in its entire text

What the Athanasian Creed says is the explanation of the Church for what God says in His Word. So it’s not strange that a cultist like Stephen considers it incomprehensible. We have seen why Stephen cannot understand the revelation of God in His Word. The Word says:

“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

So it’s natural for a natural man like Stephen who does not have the Spirit of Christ to be confused concerning the Nature of God, as it is only by the Spirit that one can know God. This confusion that Stephen has is the result of refusing the clear Word of God and thus stumbling on the stone of stumbling: “”A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.” (1 Peter 2:8). This stone of stumbling is the only true God YHWH Himself who was incarnated: Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he will be for a sanctuary; and for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and snared, and taken.” (Isaiah 8:13-15) Indeed, all cults and false religions stumble on this stone. But the Lord Jesus said: “And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me.” (Matthew 11:6)

Stephen continues:

you will find the total Anthanasian Creed in the second volume of the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Once again, Stephen wants to make his readers think that the Athanasian Creed is a Roman Catholic creed, while we have seen that it is a Creed of the catholic Church. To understand why Stephen has this confusion about the catholic Church, you can read the article: The confusion about the catholic Church.

Stephen continues:

The Athanasian Creed was later modified in the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD

We have seen how historically wrong this statement is in our article Did Athanasius tell the Church who her God is?

Then he says:

in 325 AD when Constantine organized the Catholic, or Universal, Church.

Again, we have seen that the Church is not an organization, but an organism, and we have seen when this organism (or body) was formed and who formed it. You can find the explanation in the article The confusion about the catholic Church.

The Lord Jesus said: “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” (Matthew 16:18) The Lord says that HE will build His Church, and Stephen says that Constantine built the Church… Whom do you believe?…

By the way, if you want to know why Stephen is confused about what Constantine really did, you can read about what this emperor and other emperors needed to do during the theological controversies in our article Did Athanasius tell the Church who her God is?

How many confusions you read this far in Stephen’s writings?… We continue…

Stephen continues:

The Nicene Creed, as it came to be called, was officially adopted by the Catholic Church in 381 AD and was carried over into the English Protestant or Anglican Church centuries later.

In the article Did Athanasius tell the Church who her God is? we have seen how the Nicene Creed was already an official declaration of the Church in 325 A.D., and it didn’t need to wait until 381 A.D. to be adopted officially. We have also seen in that article what happened between 325 A.D. and 381, and what exactly happened in 381 A.D. So all what you need to do now is to read that article to see the ignorance and confusion of Stephen. Needless to remind you of The confusion about the catholic Church that Stephen has and that made him ignorantly mention this date 381 A.D…. Stephen, tell your readers if any Western theologian was present at Constantinople in 381…

Now, if the Anglican denomination considers itself part of the catholic Church, then it should have accepted the biblical teaching which was declared in the Nicene Creed. If they don’t accept the biblical teaching, then they are not part of the catholic Church. And indeed, the Anglicans and all Christians always accepted this Creed. So once again you see the ignorance of Stephen concerning what “catholic” means.

And as Stephen is totally lost and confused, even after reading the Athanasian Creed and the Nicene Creed, he says:

The ECs claim God the Father and Jesus Christ are part of the Trinity—different manifestations of the same substance of Being

This is all what this Mormon mind could understand: that Christians believe the Trinity is different manifestations of the same substance… While all those Creeds and the whole work of the Church during all the first three centuries A.D. aimed to explain that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are neither just three manifestations of the same God, nor three manifestations of the same Person, but three distinct and yet inseparable Persons of the same God, just as the Bible says. But how could a natural man like Stephen understand the things of the Spirit??…

Here I would like to remind you of the following passage in our article Was the Church ignorant about the Nature of God?

In the following lines, we will see together in brief what the Apostles and all prophets of the Bible told us concerning the true God, i.e. what the Church believed since the times of the Apostles of Christ about God. All what you need to do is to read the references in the Bible, and you will see how clearly each truth is revealed there:

1. God is One, and not two or three or many gods as in pagan religions: “Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah (Deuteronomy 6:4) This is called the Shema, because the first word translated as “hear” is the Hebrew word “sh’ma” (שְׁמַע). In this verse, it is very clearly stated that God is One; His Name is Jehovah (or the Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH which is rendered as “LORD” or “Yahweh” or “Yehovah” by some versions). This was revealed to the Jews in opposition to polytheistic pagan religions of their neighbors. So there is no way to divide God into many separate persons or gods; there is no way to make of Him a council of gods who are in agreement of purpose. He is One and His unity cannot be divided, and His Nature cannot be shared by another: “Unto thee it was shewn, that thou mightest know that Jehovah, he is Godthere is none other besides him.” (Deuteronomy 4:35). God is the unique Creator of the heavens and the earth, and no one shares this Name “Creator” with Him, as God created the heavens and the earth alone and by Himself: “Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I [am] Jehovah, the maker of all things; who alone stretched out the heavens, who did spread forth the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24) And in many other passages, God declares that He is One and unique: Isaiah 41:28-29; Isaiah 42:17; Isaiah 43:10-11; Isaiah 44:7-8; Isaiah 45:5-6; Isaiah 45:14-17; Isaiah 45:21-22; Isaiah 46:1-2; Isaiah 46:8-11. And the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles confirmed the oneness of God: Mark 12:29, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:4, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Timothy 2:5. This God is an infinite, all-knowing Spirit (cf. John 4:24).

2. God is revealed as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit: “Go [therefore] and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19) This is the Great Commission with which the Lord Jesus sent His Apostles to all nations. In point 1 we saw how God has One Name indicating the uniqueness of His Nature, and this Name is YHWH meaning “I AM WHO I AM” or the “I AM” (cf. Exodus 3:14-15). “I AM WHO I AM” means that God IS by Nature, i.e. He is not bound in the past or in the future, and not even bound by the present; He is the Being in absolute, independent of everything He created and thus He is independent of time. This also shows His unchangeable Nature (cf. Malachi 3:6). Now, Jesus said that this same Name or Nature is shared by the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. As you can see in the above quoted verse from Matthew 28:19, He says “Name” (in singular) and not “Names” (in plural) referring to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. So all the three, i.e. the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, share this One Name YHWH and this same Divine Nature. The Father is YHWH, and the Son is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH: They have this One Name, and not each His Name or Nature. The Holy Spirit even sometimes refers to Jesus by calling Him “the Name” (cf. Acts 5:40-41, 3 John 7; note that Acts 5:40 says this is the Name of Jesus, and Jesus clearly said in John 15:21 that the Apostles would be persecuted for His Name’s sake); today the Jews call God “The Name” (Hebrew Ha-Shem) in the same way the Holy Spirit called Jesus in the Bible; and this comes from Leviticus 24:11 where it is referred to God as “the Name”. Already in the Old Testament God had revealed that He is personal. First, when He revealed that He is the Creator, He revealed that He is personal, as only a personal Creator can create (read our article What is the evidence for God’s existence? to have a deeper idea about this truth). God also explained how He is personal by telling us that He was revealed to people like Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and made a covenant with them (cf. Genesis 12:1, Genesis 26:24, Genesis 28:13). So from the beginning, God revealed that He makes covenants with people, thus showing that He is personal, as covenants can be made only between persons (cf. Genesis 12, Exodus 6:7, Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 37:27, Hosea 2:23, Isaiah 40:1). God also revealed Himself as the Father of Israel (cf. Exodus 4:22, Isaiah 49:15, Jeremiah 31:9) and the Father of the Messiah (cf. 2 Samuel 7:14, Psalm 2:7); God created and works in the world by His Word (Hebrew Dabar), a powerful expression of the outward expression of God, i.e. an extension of God’s Self (cf. “said” in Genesis 1:3; Isaiah 55:11), and He has an agent of creation called Wisdom (cf. Job 28, Proverbs 8), and He would come through the Messiah to establish His Kingdom and save us from our sins (cf. Isaiah 11:6-9, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Micah 5:4, and read our article What does the word “Messiah” mean? Who is the Messiah?); and God works in the world through the Spirit (Hebrew Ruah) of God (cf. Judges 6:34, 1 Samuel 10:10) who also is revealed as the Creator (cf. Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4), who has the power to save (cf. Zechariah 4:6), and is Omnipresent (cf. Psalm 139:7). So even in the Old Testament, God revealed that His personal Nature and unity involve a personal Father, and a personal Word or Wisdom or Messiah, and a personal Spirit. But of course this truth was not fully revealed until the New Testament, when the Son came, as there was no way to know God and His Nature fully until the Son revealed Him to us (cf. John 1:18, Matthew 11:27). The New Testament confirmed all what the Old Testament revealed about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and gave us a full revelation. Thus we had a full revelation of God as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit:

The Father is God: John 6:27, John 6:29, John 13:3, John 17:3, Romans 15:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 15:24, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 1:17, Ephesians 4:6, Ephesians 5:20, Philippians 2:11, etc… According to these verses, the Father is the only true God, YHWH. And as we have seen in point 1, “Jehovah, he is God — there is none other besides him.” (Deuteronomy 4:35) There is no other God than YHWH, and the Father is this true God.

The Son is God: Read the article What does the word “Messiah” mean? Who is the Messiah? to have the full explanation and all the passages that speak about the Son being God. In that article, we have seen how it was revealed in the Bible that the King of Heaven, God, came in flesh to save us from sin by offering up Himself as He is the High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek. And here is an example of verses and passages that speak about Him as God or the Lord or the Creator, worthy of worship as God from all His creatures, having authority over death and life, and having all the Attributes of God: The King of Glory, Jesus Christ, is YHWH (Psalm 24:7-10); He is the Lord of Glory (1 Corinthians 2:8); He is the Mighty God (Psalm 45:3, Isaiah 9:6); He is the Almighty (Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 1:8); He is God (Psalm 45:6-7, John 1:1, John 20:28, Romans 9:5; N.B.: In this last passage, i.e. Romans 9:5, the same expression “blessed forever. Amen.” is used about Jesus which is used about God the Creator in absolute in Romans 1:25. Also Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8-12); He is the Lord (Psalm 110:1 – note that David doesn’t have a Lord in Heaven other than God; see Psalm 73:25John 20:28, Acts 10:36, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Hebrews 13:20); He is the Lord of lords, i.e. YHWH (Deuteronomy 10:17, 1 Timothy 6:13-16, Revelation 17:14, Revelation 19:11-16); He is the true God and eternal Life (1 John 5:20); He is the Creator, and all things were created through Him and for Him (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2-3, Hebrews 1:8-12. Remember that this doesn’t mean that there was any God other than YHWH creating, as we have seen in Isaiah 44:24); He is the same Lord by whose Name people are saved in all ages (Romans 10:9,13; N.B.: Romans 10:13 quotes a passage that is about YHWH, i.e. Joel 2:32); He is “God with us”, i.e. God incarnate — N.B.: This Child was called Jesus, and not “Immanuel”, so His Name “Immanuel” or “God with us” is about His Nature, just like all His Titles or Names, and not just a simple name (Isaiah 7:14, John 1:1,14, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16); He is YHWH who has become the stone of stumbling (Isaiah 8:13-14, 1 Peter 2:8); John the Baptist prepared the way of YHWH who came as the Shepherd (Isaiah 40:3,11, Matthew 3:3); He is YHWH our Righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5-6, 1 Corinthians 1:30); He is eternal and has no beginning (Micah 5:2); He is the Lord of the Temple (Malachi 3:1, cf. Matthew 12:6 and Luke 1:9); He is worshiped as God not just by humans but also by angels, and He didn’t refuse that worship like those who didn’t deserve it (Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:12-14, cf. Matthew 4:10, Acts 10:25-26, Revelation 19:10, Revelation 22:8-9); He is Omnipresent (Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:20, John 1:18, John 3:13); He forgives sins, and only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:7,10, Colossians 3:13); He is Omniscient (Luke 5:22, John 2:24-25, John 16:30, John 21:17, 1 Corinthians 4:5, Revelation 2:23); He should be honored as God (John 5:23); He calls Himself the “I AM” or YHWH, and He says that we die in our sins if we don’t believe that He is (John 8:24, John 8:58); He is the Good Shepherd about whom David wrote in Psalm 23 (John 10:11, Hebrews 13:20, N.B.: The Shepherd is YHWH in Psalm 23 and in other passages of the Old Testament); He has authority over His death and Resurrection (John 10:17-18); He and the Father are One (John 10:30, John 12:45, John 14:9); He is the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25); He is YHWH whom Isaiah saw in a vision and about whom he wrote (John 12:37-41; N.B.: Isaiah saw the Glory of YHWH in Isaiah 6:1-10; this is Jesus according to John 12:41); He hears prayers (John 14:13-14, Acts 7:59; N.B.: Only God hears prayers – Psalm 63:4, Psalm 65:2); All what is the Father’s is His, including the Divine Spirit (John 16:15, John 17:10, Romans 8:9); He is the Judge, i.e. the Lawgiver, God (2 Corinthians 5:10, James 4:12); He existed in the form of God and He is equal to God (Philippians 2:5-8); He is YHWH, so He does not change, as we have seen previously (Hebrews 13:8, Malachi 3:6); He is the Alpha and Omega, i.e. the First and the Last, i.e. YHWH (Revelation 1:8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 2:8, cf. Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12); He is YHWH who redeemed us from our sins (Titus 2:13-14, Psalm 130:7-8); etc… According to these verses, the Son is the only true God, YHWH. And as we have seen in point 1, “Jehovah, he is God — there is none other besides him.” (Deuteronomy 4:35) There is no other God than YHWH, and the Son is this true God.

The Holy Spirit is God: He is the Creator (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4); He has the power to save (Zechariah 4:6); He is Omnipresent (Psalm 139:7); He is Omniscient (Isaiah 40:13-14, 1 Corinthians 2:10); He is Omnipotent (Romans 15:13); He is God (Acts 5:3-4); He is the Lord (Luke 2:26-29, 2 Corinthians 3:17); He is the Author of the new birth (John 3:5-6); He guides us into all the truth (John 16:13); He is eternal (Hebrews 9:14); He has a sovereign Will (1 Corinthians 12:11); He is the Author of the Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21, Hebrews 3:7-11); He appoints and commissions ministers (Isaiah 48:16, Acts 13:2, Acts 20:28), etc… According to these verses, the Holy Spirit is the only true God, YHWH. And as we have seen in point 1, “Jehovah, he is God — there is none other besides him.” (Deuteronomy 4:35) There is no other God than YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is this true God.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are mentioned together as One in passages like: Genesis 1:1-3, Matthew 28:19, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6, 2 Corinthians 13:14, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Peter 1:2, Jude 20-21, Revelation 1:4-5.

As the Son is the One who revealed to us who God is, so the concentration of the Bible, and especially of the New Testament, is on the Son, Jesus Christ. And indeed all cults want to attack this truth about the Messiah, the Son of God, as it is the rock upon which the Church is built, as we have seen in the article What does the word “Messiah” mean? Who is the Messiah? (cf. Matthew 16:15-18)

3. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other: The Father sent the Son (John 3:17, John 4:34, John 5:23-24, John 5:37, John 6:29, John 6:38, John 6:44, etc…) The Son prayed to the Father (Matthew 14:23, Matthew 26:36-39, Mark 1:35, John 17, etc…) The Son had to go so that the Holy Spirit may come, and it is the Son who sent the Holy Spirit (John 16:7, etc…). In the baptism of Jesus Christ, the Father speaks from Heaven, and the Holy Spirit comes in the form of a dove (Matthew 3:16-17, Mark 1:10-11, Luke 3:21-22, John 1:32). These and many other passages show that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other. It is very wrong to say that the Father is the Son, or that the Son is the Holy Spirit or that the Holy Spirit is the Father. They are distinct from each other, and yet not separate (according to the points 1 and 2).

Now, the essential question was: How can God be One and not multiple, and at the same time be the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit who are distinct from each other and yet not separate? Notice that not knowing the answer to this “how” will not make you lose your eternity, but not believing what God has revealed in His Word as we have seen in the above three points will make you lose your eternity. The main purpose of explaining the “how” in the best way is to help understand how the divine truths are logical, although they are very much higher than our human logic: “”For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.”” (Isaiah 55:8-9)

***

Brief, Stephen is confused concerning many truths, as he has received the wrong information about what really happened, and he refused to believe what God said in His Word, the Bible. The following are the articles that we have written this far as a reply to his manuscript. Each of them presents a multitude of misunderstandings and confusions in Stephen’s mind:

An email from a Mormon
Stephen has no clear idea about what the Christian love means, as he never experienced the Love of God in Christ Jesus.

Mormons confess that they are NOT evangelical Christians
Stephen is confused concerning who the evangelical Christians really are.

Mormons confess that they are “open minded” in the interpretation of the Word of God
Stephen is confused: why should he only accept the interpretation of God for His Word? Stephen thinks we can also accept human and satanic interpretations, as we should be “open minded”…

Some scandals of Mormonism
Stephen justifies the Mormon atrocities and lies, and he even accuses God of the same atrocities and lies… Indeed, Romans 1:18-32 explains that those who replace the real God with gods of their imagination will surely go from a wickedness to another, and the summit will be to give their approval to those who practice those wicked deeds. If Stephen were honest with himself at least, he would leave such a false human religion whose prophet was a liar who deceived people, as we have seen in the article.

Should we associate with the Mormons?
Stephen is confused why Christians hate the poisonous doctrines of his cult…

Did Adam have to choose between two sins?
Stephen is confused concerning the Fall and the original sin… And till now we didn’t receive his answer concerning our question whether animals also ate from that forbidden tree… Stephen thinks one needs to eat from that forbidden tree in order to be able to have sexual relations… So we wait to see if the animals also ate from that tree… Of course, a confused Mormon cannot answer such questions.

Was the Church ignorant about the Nature of God?
As Stephen is ignorant about the history of the Church, so he is confused concerning who God is, so he accuses the Church of being confused… You can say it’s a kind of projection of Stephen’s own confusion to others…

The confusion about the catholic Church
Stephen is confused about what the catholic Church is, and who built it, and when it was built… So he thinks that the catholic Church is the same as the Roman Catholic movement.

Did Athanasius tell the Church who her God is?
Stephen didn’t know that the Athanasian Creed was a collection of all what the Church clarified in her explanations from the Nicene Creed (325 A.D.) until the fifth century, so he thought that the Athanasian Creed should have preceded the Nicene Creed… You see how the deceptions of human leaders can lead people to believe wrong things… The Athanasian Creed even explains the unity of Christ’s Person which was not a real issue until the Christological crisis or the Chalcedonian crisis from which resulted the Chalcedonian Creed… The Chalcedonian crisis happened in the fifth century… At that time Athanasius was already dead, so go wonder how he knew that such a controversy would take place and thus included it in his Creed… Stephen never could explain this to us.

Of course, we pray that the Lord may open the eyes of this confused Mormon to the knowledge of the truth, so that he may repent from the darkness of his ways and come to the knowledge of the true God in our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Grace be with you!
Disciple of Jesus Christ

___

Posted in: Religious Movements | Mormonism
This is part 10 of the series: Answer to a Mormon’s manuscript

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