Fullness of joy in the body?…

We continue our comments on the manuscript sent to us by a Mormon called Stephen.(*) Click here to see the other articles in this series. You can also go to the Mormonism page to find all the articles that are in this refutation of Stephen’s document.

Stephen continues to tell us about his Mormon dreams that have ZERO back up in the Bible; he says:

This body would allow us to learn more and to have a fullness of joy.

I wonder of which “joy” and of which “fullness” Stephen is dreaming here when I read the following passages in the Word of God:

“I said in my heart, Come now, I will try thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure. But behold, this also is vanity. I said of laughter, Madness! and of mirth, What availeth it?” (Ecclesiastes 2: 1-2)

“And I hated life; for the work that is wrought under the sun was grievous unto me; for all is vanity and pursuit of the wind.” (Ecclesiastes 2:17)

“For what will man have of all his labour and of the striving of his heart, wherewith he hath wearied himself under the sun? For all his days are sorrows, and his travail vexation: even in the night his heart taketh no rest. This also is vanity.” (Ecclesiastes 2:22-23)

“The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if, by reason of strength, they be fourscore years, yet their pride is labour and vanity, for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.” (Psalm 90:10)

“And not only [that], but even we ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, we also ourselves groan in ourselves, awaiting adoption, [that is] the redemption of our body.” (Romans 8:23)

“But I am pressed by both, having the desire for departure and being with Christ, [for] [it is] very much better (Philippians 1:23)

“For we know that if our earthly tabernacle house be destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this we groan, ardently desiring to have put on our house which [is] from heaven; if indeed being also clothed we shall not be found naked. For indeed we who are in the tabernacle groan, being burdened; while yet we do not wish to be unclothed, but clothed, that [what is] mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that has wrought us for this very thing [is] God, who also has given to us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore [we are] always confident, and know that while present in the body we are absent from the Lord, (for we walk by faith, not by sight;) we are confident, I say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 5:1-8)

“For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12)

It seems that our Mormon friend, Stephen, does not care about sin and its disastrous consequences… In his introductory words about the Plan of Salvation, he tells us about “joy” and “knowledge”, and he links them to our body… I am sure no true Christian is unaware about which kind of joy and knowledge he is talking: it’s the carnal joy and the carnal mind-knowledge… But let’s wait to see if later in his manuscript he will explain this “joy” and “knowledge”. For now, we have seen that God’s Word says the exact opposite of what Stephen said: all our days in this body are grief and groaning because of sin, and we wait for the day of resurrection, the day of the redemption of our bodies, and the knowledge that we now have is partial, never to be complete before we reach Heaven. Stephen thinks it is this body that allows us to have more knowledge and fullness of joy, while God’s Word says the exact opposite…

Now, we will wait to see how Stephen will link this carnal joy to the Plan of Salvation… But note that in his introductory words about Salvation, Stephen has nothing to say about sin and the wrath of God that is revealed from Heaven against all sins of men (cf. Romans 1:18)… How could a cultist like Stephen know this essential truth when he still follows the Mormon corrupted teachings instead of God’s Word?… We have already seen how he has no idea about what the Fall is; we have seen this in our article Did Adam have to choose between two sins? where we have seen his confused conclusions about the sin of Adam and Eve, conclusions that are based on the deceptions of his Mormon leaders, especially the deceptions of Joseph Smith.

If you want to read a better introduction to the Plan of Salvation that includes a clear explanation of what sin is and how to be saved from sin and from the wrath of God, please read our article How to be saved?

Now, let’s continue reading the confused introduction of Stephen to this very important subject of God’s Plan of Salvation:

It would also be a source of opposition. We would have opportunity in life to make decisions that could determine our own lifespan as well as that of others.

In this passage, “it” refers to the body… The body would allow us to make decisions?… We have seen how God the Father has no body (read here), so does this mean that He can’t make decisions?… The angels who chose to rebel with Satan had no bodies!! They all are spirits… And yet, they did choose to rebel!… The most interesting part in all this is that Mormons themselves believe that we humans had no bodies before we received our bodies, and yet we lived and did make choices before our incarnation (this is what Mormons believe, which of course is just a dream as we have seen*). So if spirits that have no body can make decisions, then how does Stephen say that these bodies would be a source of opposition as they make us have opportunity in life to make decisions? Could we not make decisions without having bodies??…

But most importantly, note with me how Stephen and his false Mormon man-centered doctrine make man sovereign in determining his “own lifespan as well as that of others”, while the Bible clearly teaches that God is Sovereign and that He is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and that it is He who determines events according to His Will, whether in a direct way or in an indirect way. We, humans, we think that we determine things, because our hearts are boastful because of our sinful nature, but in fact it is GOD who is in control. God’s Word is very clear about the Sovereignty of God; let me quote just some of the passages that talk about His Sovereignty:

“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Daniel 4:35)

The counsel of Jehovah standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart from generation to generation.” (Psalm 33:11)

“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he pleased.” (Psalm 115:3)

Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6)

“Yea, since the day was, I [am] HE, and there is none that delivereth out of my hand: I will work, and who shall hinder it?” (Isaiah 43:13)

“On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?” (Romans 9:20-21)

“in whom we have also obtained an inheritance, being marked out beforehand according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his own will (Ephesians 1:11)

And in this truth of God’s Sovereignty, the child of God can have real Peace, because he knows for sure that it is not the blind decisions of some chance or the corrupted will of men that will determine what will happen to him, but that it is God who is in control and who will make all things work together for his good: “But we do know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to purpose.” (Romans 8:28)

Now, as Stephen despises the Sovereignty of God, so he attributes to man a power to determine things in his own life and in the lives of others, as if man were sovereign… This ignorance about the Sovereignty of God will make Stephen say some really blasphemous things about God and His Sovereignty, as we will see.

Stephen continues:

The Father knew we would all fall short to some degree in our mortal capacity, so He provided a way to compensate for our failure.

Note with me that Stephen has not told us we fail in what exactly… Do we fail in having that fullness of joy about which he was talking above? Or maybe we fail to determine things in our life and in the lives of others, as he was dreaming above, thus proving that we are not sovereign while God is?… Stephen seems not to have any interest in explaining what our failure’s nature is… He just tells us that we fall short to some degree in our mortal capacity (read it well: it’s “mortal” and not “moral”, and it’s only to some degree…)

All those readers who honestly want to know the truth will agree with me that Stephen has to explain to us what is the condition or the problem or the trouble from which God will save us… Is it a matter of joy in the body, as the words of Stephen make us think? As it seems, the matter for Stephen and Mormons is the joy and happiness of man… which of course is a man-centered teaching in contradiction with the God-centered teaching of God’s Word… We have already seen that the concentration of Stephen is on man’s happiness and joy in this body, making the will of man sovereign and making God the servant of this all-powerful and sovereign will of man… For Stephen, God should do all things to keep man happy and sovereign in his choices, and He should make huge concessions for the sake of that sovereign will of man…

We will see more on this in our next replies, if the Lord wills. Meanwhile, please read about the true Plan of Salvation in the following article: How to be saved?

Grace be with you!
Disciple of Jesus Christ


Posted in: Religious Movements / Mormonism
This is part 16 of the series: Answer to a Mormon’s manuscript

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