We continue our comments on the manuscript sent to us by a Mormon called Stephen.(*) Click here to see the other articles in this series. You can also go to the Mormonism page to find all the articles that are in this refutation of Stephen’s document.
The next issue to address in the Plan of Salvation is the doctrine of diverse kingdoms.
Stephen addressed many false doctrines of his sect, but he still didn’t talk about Salvation, although his chapter is about the plan of Salvation… We still did not know from what we will be saved… On the contrary, Stephen kept telling us that we don’t need to be saved, because, as his arguments practically mean, we can save ourselves by our faithfulness… This is what all self-righteous people think about Salvation…
Let’s see now what are his diverse kingdoms…
Our understanding of this doctrine and who qualifies for which kingdom will be given in more detail in Chapter Seven.
Then it would be better to leave it for that chapter… But is it not important to know who qualifies, especially that we are in the chapter which is about Salvation?…
For now, we will look at the logic of their existence.
Existence of what? And which kind of logic? Human logic?…
We know David told the Lord, “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; . . .” (Ps. 16:10)
In Sheol, not in Hell…
The Apostles told us that this is about Jesus, and not about David in himself: “for thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor wilt thou give thy gracious one to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me [the] paths of life, thou wilt fill me with joy with thy countenance. Brethren, let it be allowed to speak with freedom to you concerning the patriarch David, that he has both died and been buried, and his monument is amongst us unto this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn to him with an oath, of the fruit of his loins to set upon his throne; he, seeing [it] before, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither has he been left in hades nor his flesh seen corruption.” (Acts 2:27-31) As you see, the Apostle said that this prophecy was not about David, as David has died and has seen corruption, but it was about Christ.
Since we know Sheol and Hades do not mean “the grave” or the final resting place of the wicked, we must understand David was not to be left there.
As Hades means the grave where all the dead are, so David is still there now as the Apostle told us clearly in the passage that I quoted above, while the Lord Jesus rose and His body did not see corruption like the body of David.
He was to be allowed to go somewhere else.
David’s body is still in that tomb, as Peter clearly said in Acts 2… his body didn’t go anywhere…
David had committed not only adultery, but he had taken the life of Uriah the Hittite to hide his sin. David would not be left in hell, but he would not inherit the Celestial Kingdom of God, as he had conspired to commit murder—premeditated murder.
David has received forgiveness from God and was justified by faith. David will be in Heaven with us forever and ever.
But I remind you again: the verse from Psalms that you quoted is not about David. Have you built your whole argument on a misunderstanding of that verse?…
So, if he did not inherit the Kingdom of God and would not be left in “hell,” where would he go?
He will inherit the Kingdom of God with us. Nowhere in the Bible it is said that adultery and murder are the unforgivable sins…
After he had explained to the saints at Corinth, “all would be made alive,” Paul said, “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” (1 Cor. 15:23) As already discussed, Paul went on to explain how there are “celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial,” and how they differ in glory. He even gave as comparison the differences in glory between the sun, the moon, and the stars and how the stars themselves differ in glory one from another. Then he said, “So also is the resurrection of the dead.” (1 Cor. 15:40-54)
Yes, there is an order: Christ first, and THEN those who belong to Him. The dead in Christ have not risen yet.
And yes, the resurrection of the dead happens in risen bodies that are different from our present weak bodies, just as stars differ in brightness or glory. This has been explained in details before. So what does this have to do with any kingdoms?…
If you have a problem grasping the concept of different kingdoms and various degrees of glory, ask yourself the following question: Would God be a just God if he took the unrepentant who knew the Gospel and had committed atrocious crimes such as murder, rape, and or child molestation, and grouped them together with those who had never even heard of Jesus Christ and had committed such minor offenses as petit theft or simply coveting a neighbor’s property without ever having actually stolen it?
Yes, it is just, because God does not look to some committed sins, but to the nature. All those sins are the fruits of a fallen and sinful nature. No sinful nature will enter Heaven, and all sinful people deserve eternal Hell. If you have even ONE sin, you deserve the fires of Hell forever, because the wages of sin, any sin, is eternal death, i.e. eternal separation from God in Hell.
Readers, note how Stephen thinks some sins are not so serious for God… That’s his unholy god of whom he has been talking to us all the time…
When Paul wrote to the saints at Corinth, he knew they had a basic understanding of the Gospel. He did not have to go into depth about the different kingdoms and what types of people would inherit them. They were already familiar with that doctrine. If you want a more in depth look at the degrees of glory in Heaven and who goes where, I invite you to read the seventy-sixth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, the section discussed in Chapter Seven.
What different kingdoms?? What glories for sinners?… Anyway, we answer you when we get to your chapter seven, if the Lord wills and we live.
So, the less-righteous and even the wicked will be resurrected in their own order.
There is nothing called less-righteous; you either are righteous or unrighteous. And yes, the unrighteous also will rise, but for eternal judgment, as we have seen.
We learn from John the Revelator in chapters 20 and 21 of the Revelation,
You’re in error: John is not the Revelator, but Christ is: “Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified [it], sending by his angel, to his bondman John” (Revelation 1:1). John is the bondman who received the revelation; he’s not the revelator…
We learn from John the Revelator in chapters 20 and 21 of the Revelation, the Second Resurrection comes at the end of Christ’s millennial reign.
Second Resurrection?? Show us where you read this?! I know about the first resurrection which is not the resurrection of bodies, but of souls: “and the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God; and those who had not done homage to the beast nor to his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ a thousand years: the rest of the dead did not live till the thousand years had been completed. This [is] the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:4-5) So tell me where you read about two different bodily resurrections…
Those who then will be resurrected will taste of “the second death,” the spiritual death—the cutting off of the wicked from the presence of the Lord.
Not all of those who will rise will go to eternal Hell. We have seen that the righteous will rise to eternal life.
But it’s good that you finally admitted that the cutting off, the destruction, means spiritual death, and not just some misery as you previously said…
Getting back to David, we need to reason out of the Scriptures to understand how, although David’s soul would not be left in Hell, the Prison of the Spirit World, he would not partake of the First Resurrection.
We have seen how it is Christ who would not be left in Hades, the place of the dead, and we have seen how the sin of David was forgiven and was not the unforgivable sin. I wonder where you read that David will not partake of the first resurrection…
While explaining the guilt of the Jews in crucifying their Lord, Peter referred to David, the prophet, “For David speaketh concerning him (Jesus), I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, . . . Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. . . . David . . . is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. . . . For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.” (Acts 2: 25-35) So, as of Peter’s dissertation, David had not been resurrected.
NO ONE other than Jesus has been resurrected yet; the resurrection did not happen yet. So did you discover something special, Stephen??
We know from Matthew 27:52 and 53, many saints were resurrected after the Savior came forth.
Yes, just as Lazarus was resurrected before. But they all died again, just as Lazarus died again, so that was not the final resurrection. The resurrection of the dead did not happen yet. Stephen is teaching a wrong doctrine that the Apostle Paul has already condemned: “[men] who as to the truth have gone astray, saying that the resurrection has taken place already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:18)
Note also that many of the saints rose, but NOT all of them, so not all the saints of the Old Testament were supposed to rise. Those who rose were just a revelation from God that in Christ we have life.
However, David was not.
And Solomon also did not rise… And Daniel also did not rise… And Jeremiah also did not rise… And Noah also did not rise… And Abraham also did not rise… SO WHAT?? What does this prove?…
But his soul will not be left in Hell.
As you yourself quoted, that was about the Lord Jesus, and the word is not Hell but Hades…
Once he has served his time for Conspiracy to Commit Premeditated Murder and for First Degree Murder, both capital offenses under sections 182 and 187 of the California Penal Code, the Atonement of Christ will redeem him to a glory above Hell.
What does the California Penal Code have to do with God’s Justice?… We have seen that redemption is NOT by our works, but by the pure Grace of Christ. So David’s sin was forgiven when he confessed it. Have you read Psalm 51?… If his sin was not forgiven, he would go to Hell forever, because there is no forgiveness after death, as we have seen, because there is no faith after death.
The glory in which David is is in the presence of the Lord, not less.
And only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can explain David’s predicament and redemption from Hell to the satisfaction of both Justice and Mercy.
Only the cult of Mormonism could say such silly things as the ones we read above…
Grace be with you!
Disciple of Jesus Christ